TheLinuxVault talk:Community Portal

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I'd get a little more content before you get it dugg if I were you.

Hey, any chance you can enable uploads? I know you have to configure that through some of the MediaWiki setting schtuff, but it'd be helpful for getting logos up on some distro pages and whatnot. Thanks! --Goose 08:02, 3 September 2007 (EDT)



Contents

[edit] Structure

Not that I wanna be all snobby or anything, but please keep new comments at the bottom, and be sure to use a signature. It's what people who are familiar with the wiki structure expect, and it keeps things organized. Thanks! --Goose 09:07, 3 September 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Combating spam

I recommend the admins to read http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Spam . Otherwise you will get hit with spam really bad within a couple of days.

--Espen 09:39, 3 September 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Administrators

The administrators are now Knithx and Goose.

[edit] Structure and IRC

Is an IRC channel set for people to talk about the Linux Vault, also, what is the defined structure for topics?

I agree, we should have an IRC channel, maybe start one on EFnet? Barnjo 20:07, 5 September 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Categories

I was emailed with a really good idea:

I was wondering if I could discuss possible organization schemes for the linux vault with you. I was thinking that the problem with howtoforge is that finding any single thing on it is excruciatingly hard. As there's not a lot of content on linux vault right now (Which I would also like to help with), I was thinking that a really strong categorization system, aimed at types of problem or information, along with some loose guidelines, could make it really super-useful in a way existing sites aren't. To be blunt, the only site I really find useful for searching for problem resolution on linux for any reliable percentage of the time is google. This is obviously broken and suboptimal.

My dream organization pattern would be this (And, again, due to Wiki-nature, multiple organizing patterns are more than possible.)

Broad Section of Computing->Specific Program/Programs->Problem

For instance: Video->Linux Console->Changing the size of the linux console

My suggestions for the sections: Video, Audio, Input/Output, Network, Storage, Misc. Software, Distro Specific Quirks

Obviously, one would have to think pretty hard about the categories. But it seems pretty solid to me.

I think the key at the moment is just making everything as accessible as possible. This is the hardest part of setting up a wiki site. You need to get recurring members, and you really can't be secure until you pass the 2000 article hump. As you mentioned, the nice thing about MediaWiki is that it allows many different ways to categorize things. I'll definitely go along with whatever structure you'd like to set up, but personally, I'd really like to see easy-to-access how-to's. On a different note, just in keeping with the MediaWiki structure, to discuss with me, please use my talk page. The mainpage talk section really should only be regarding the main page in general. --Goose 11:04, 3 September 2007 (EDT)

[edit] What's the goal?

What is the goal of this wiki? Is it just to give some information about the different distributions? I think that has been done before. In fact, wikipedia seems pretty good at it. If it's a set of tips and tricks about various distributions, most of them have forums that cover this. Why a new website at all? 192.234.106.2 11:41, 3 September 2007 (EDT)

Convergence, dear 192.234.106.2, convergence. Having one source for how-to's, hardware information, driver information, distribution specs, means we'll all be a little less dependent on Google. And won't that be nice when Google finally turns to the dark side? No, but in all seriousness, this theoretically will help avoid all the time spend searching through random forum threads every time you run into a snag with your configuration. --Goose 11:45, 3 September 2007 (EDT)
You mean, like http://www.tldp.org?
If so - then this wiki looks a damn site more attractive 172.209.151.181 14:58, 3 September 2007 (EDT)

[edit] The Point

The point of this wiki (to me anyway), it to make a well cross-referenced library of information relating to linux. All linux's. A lot of the distributions use similar programs to accomplish the same thing. So it might be good to list common things that people want to do, and somehow list the fix for it. Make it easy to find things. As for doing that? All I can say is make lots of cross links between pages.

What would really be useful is to have information that the absolutely new user would find useful. Changing the screen size, answering the popular question "What now?", that sort of thing.

--GloryToad 11:46, 3 September 2007 (EDT)


"What would really be useful is to have information that the absolutely new user would find useful."

ABSOLUTELY! -- This is what is lacking everywhere else on the internet which is in general massively biased toward the Nerd. To interest new users in even a small way means Very Basic Explanations or they will switch off instantly.

To me this really does need to be a priority if you are not to end up duplicating other efforts.

--Braedsjaa

[edit] TLDP

Looks like everything on The Linux Documentation Project can be swiped with impunity. Seems like a good place to start. Is that a good idea? --Mike 15:59, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia Content

What's the policy on ripping Wikipedia pages. I'd avoid it myself, but I've noticed it on RPM Package Manager for example. Thought I'd mention it craig1709 16:46, 3 September 2007 (EDT)

If it can be avoided, don't do it! If you really feel you must, according to the Wikipedia license, you MUST NOTATE that it is taken from the article. Uncredited plagiarism will lead to being blocked. *heads over to the RPM page* --Goose 17:28, 3 September 2007 (EDT)
What about articles that ave been ripped from other sites, such as the official Ubuntu wiki? Barnjo 20:26, 5 September 2007 (EDT)

Also, what's the policy on adding links to Wikipedia. It seems like a cop-out to me, as anybody can find anything on Wikipedia by themselves, and The Linux Vault does not need to be a collection of links to Wikipedia. I think the policy should be to never link to Wikipedia when it's to the same article that's on The Linux Vault; For example: Xfce links directly to the Wikipedia Xfce page. I think that it should sometimes be acceptable when it has nothing to do with Linux. For example, Defcon links to the Wikipedia page on a movie called War Games. Maybe sometime later there could be a "Wikipedia link" template put on pretty much every page, if we want to link to Wikipedia. What do you think? CatastrophicToad 11:30, 7 September 2007 (EDT)

Agreed, but there is a place for Wikipedia-links. For example, when referencing Richard Stallman, Linus Torvalds, or other information of that nature. --Goose 16:05, 7 September 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Reinventing the wheel?

With so much of content already available online e.g. TLDP, Redhat docs, Debian docs, etc. why create another website to confuse people even more. And don't forget the man pages and documentation in your /usr/share/doc/package/ (change path depending for distro) which is so underutilized by users. --69.157.191.118 17:41, 3 September 2007 (EDT)

I think it is a great idea, but see how many can disagree. This is the nature of open source. The "change path depending for distro" part of your comment is most telling... how would a new user have any idea what you are even talking about? TLDP is wonderful, but it has never been newbie friendly. Most of the documentation is available under an open source license itself, making it ripe to be copied (with full attribution) and adapted for a less technical audience. I think the world needs a Linux documentation site with a massive amount of easy to ready and distro-agnostic information. As a Linux professional, count me as a long-time wheel inventor if this site shows significant growth.

[edit] Sidux

Why is Sidux on the front page? I'm sure it's very nice, but it's a small distro (AFAIK) and has no page of it's own. It's just a logo and a name. --Michael 18:18, 3 September 2007 (EDT)

Right now we're more just encouraging people to add content. We'll regulate front-pageage and such when it's appropriate. --Goose 19:00, 3 September 2007 (EDT)
No page? Right now is the distro with more information in The Linux Vault. Moreover, is a great distro as you said (and I use).--knithx 07:57, 6 September 2007 (EDT)
I think in the future they will list the different distros according to lineage, but this wiki doesn't have enough information to set that kind of policy. Let's just gather information and later sort it out. CatastrophicToad 03:45, 7 September 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Linux App help?

How about help or howto's for common Linux apps or setup questions. Like "How can I get Compiz-Fusion working in Ubuntu?" There are numerous posts with this in UbuntuForums, but a central place with one howto would be nice. Another example would be "How can I get my USB headset to work in Teamspeak?" It's not too obvious to most, but changing the driver to dsp1 in TS options is the way to do it.

So... what do ya say? I section for common linux apps and help? I'm new to Ubuntu but pretty savvy and have had some challenges with some of the apps.

Please, don't ask! Feel welcome to start writing whatever tutorial/how-to you want, Goose and I will care about the categories later ;) One thing, make sure the titles are not questions. For example, "How can I get Compiz-Fusion working in Ubuntu?" would be better like "Compiz Fusion in Ubuntu" (although that one is already writen by me (Compiz Fusion, you can expand it) --knithx 07:57, 6 September 2007 (EDT)

[edit] "How To's"

There is no discussion page for the categories list, but all over the list are things labeled "How To's". I think the more proper "How Tos" or "How To" should be used. http://www.thelinuxvault.net/wiki/Category:Commands CatastrophicToad 06:12, 7 September 2007 (EDT)

Actually, the appropriate convention would be How-To's. But I'll work on getting that standardized. --Goose 07:59, 7 September 2007 (EDT)
oops wrong link: http://www.thelinuxvault.net/wiki/Special:Categories CatastrophicToad 09:58, 7 September 2007 (EDT)
The benefit to having the distribution-specific How-To's (e.g. Ubuntu How-To's) is that it can be used as a subcategory both of the Ubuntu category, and the global How-To's category. Other than that, I see no reason for additional How-To-like categories. (I removed "Basic How-To's") --Goose 10:06, 7 September 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Distribution Edition Convention?

I'm planning on putting up articles for the 4 editions of Linux Mint. What naming convention should I use? I just noticed that Ubuntu has completely separate pages for Kubuntu, Xubuntu, and Edubuntu complete with separate distribution templates. This seems confusing to me since they are all really part of the same system. Should I do what Ubuntu did and create separate pages for each edition of Linux Mint, or what I'd rather become a policy, something like Linux Mint/Main Edition, Linux Mint/Light Edition, Linux Mint/XFCE Community Edition, Linux Mint/KDE Community Edition or something similar, with only one distro template on the Linux Mint page. CatastrophicToad 11:46, 7 September 2007 (EDT)

[edit] About plagiarism (lots of lately edits)

How far do we have to take the definition of plagiarism? I personally think it is not a big deal to copy one paragraph from the wikipedia or the official page of some distributions. Since we are starting off, we don't have to keep our minds to have only-genuine-content, but to manage to have the biggest ammount of Linux information, and then, filter it. I agree with CatastrophicToad that copying one full page of information from a whole site is not a good idea, but neither editing or deleting everything that has a sentece copied from other source. Remember people, we are starting off. Moreover, CatastrophicToad, if you are going to wipe out a full page, please don't be precipitated and make a reference of your concern in the discussion page. In my opinion, we are trying to join all the Linux information posible, not reinventing it.--knithx 10:51, 8 September 2007 (EDT)

Well, you're the boss, but I think that allowing paragraph plagiarism encourages bulk copying. I think it doesn't take much more energy to write an original paragraph, and a single original sentence is better than any amount of plagiarism. I will not begin copying paragraphs, but I will stop reverting what looks like plagiarism. I would only put a warning on the discussion page that the content of the page is not to be deleted (not if you don't want me to). Maybe you should put a note on the policy page that paragraph plagiarism is acceptable, so that there would be less confusion.
Also, maybe there could be a "requested articles" page created so that we know where to put our efforts; I've just been going from article to article looking for ways to improve them (I got through all of them last night). CatastrophicToad 11:03, 8 September 2007 (EDT)
Ok CatastrophicToad. And not less important, thanks for your outstanding job. Keep it going folks :D --knithx 18:42, 8 September 2007 (EDT)
Just weighing in here, but I have to agree with Catastrophy here. Encouraging paragraph plagiarism is encouraging pointless copying. That's a waste of server space. Now, I happen to agree that reverting a page simply because it has a few sentences or even a paragraph that isn't original content is absurd. Mark the page with the Plagiarism template, or simply edit the offending lines of text yourself. Yes, we want to avoid plagiarism ideally, but to the extent that we're a new site, it'd be foolish to remove a great deal of content. --Goose 00:35, 9 September 2007 (EDT)
yeah I should have put a plagiarism template and waited for knithx. Being a new wiki without many edits I figured I'd just "do it and see what happened". CatastrophicToad 08:03, 9 September 2007 (EDT)



[edit] Packages

Hi i'm a complete Linux newbie and i was wondering if someone could write a brief article about packages and the pictures that are next to most of them. Right now i have no idea what they mean and i think that goes for most Linux noobs.

I'm sorry I don't know exactly what you mean. Are you talking about package management? I will get to that soon, but if there is a specific package manager or system you would like an article about I can get right on it. I don't know what you mean about "pictures next to them". Maybe I would understand if you said what program you're using. CatastrophicToad 11:37, 10 September 2007 (EDT)

I ended up finding out what the pictures meant on my own. I downloaded the pictures and when i was prompted to save them the names popped up as the potential names. The package images were for compressed files,text files and unknown files. The compressed files are sort of squished in the middle with 2 arrows pointing to the middle, the text file just had lines on it and the unknown file has a question mark on it. A brief explanation of these images would probably help people trying to learn how to use Linux.

Are you talking about the images that represent files in the file browser? That changes depending on distribution so it would be difficult to do without doing separate articles for each file browser/distribution. What you said made me think of something else we could write an article about; how to access certain types of files. Instead of dealing with the pictures, it could talk about what to do with files like .tar.gz, .exe, .bin, and such. Maybe I'll start on it soon and call it something like File Types CatastrophicToad 11:07, 12 September 2007 (EDT)

That sounds like a good idea for an article i ended up finding out about tarball files while i was trying to find out what the pictures next to the files meant I might write an article about the file images or i might not i bet someone will eventually after seeing this.

[edit] SUSE Linux vs. openSUSE.

Friendly reminder to the maintainer of the home page: SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop, SUSE Linux Enterprise Server, and openSUSE are all different distributions, with different purposes, cost structures, and functional implementations. They should be distinguished.

agreed CatastrophicToad 21:10, 10 September 2007 (EDT)
The same thing goes for Red Hat and other distributions. We're just trying to get content up for any distributions right now. You are welcome to, and encouraged to create pages for SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop, SUSE Linux Enterprise Server, and openSUSE. If you don't, I or someone else will eventually, but otherwise I think the Suse page will suffice to describe them all for now. CatastrophicToad 21:49, 10 September 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Get a vault

The last time i checked a box was still a box and a vault is a vault. Why is the image in the upper left corner of the site a box instead of a vault?

use 4 "~"s to sign your comment. CatastrophicToad 04:02, 28 October 2007 (EDT)

[edit] New Templates

I added two new templates Template:Foss and Template:Proprietary for use on software articles. What do you think? CatastrophicToad 04:03, 28 October 2007 (EDT)

Now I've slightly altered Template:Distribution too. CatastrophicToad 04:39, 28 October 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Categories

Let's try to keep the Category:How-To's articles separate from the Category:FOSS articles to be less confusing. Also, we can just put a template:howto or a template:foss on them and not need to put both on a single article.CatastrophicToad 00:15, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

[edit] No Spanish yet

Please, no Spanish yet (I know, I know, even I am Spanish). unsigned comment from 66.99.246.227 at 00:36, 21 April 2008

[edit] Vandalism

Could you make it so only registered users can edit? The vandalism robots are everywhere. --Maybeway36 16:09, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

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